4. Discovering TechLabs with Joel Radvanyi

NEW EPISODE – FIND MY SWISS SCHOOL PLUS+ Podcast

In this inspiring conversation, we sit down with Joel Radvanyi, the CEO and visionary founder of TechLabs. Joel shares his big vision for TechLabs and shows us how tech can teach life skills that go far beyond the screen. 

Join us as we discuss the art of failing in order to succeed, Harry Potter wands, developing grit and persistence, digital safety and values, and the vibrant TechLabs community—a place where young people of all ages can collaborate, innovate, and discover their potential. 

TechLabs is based in Basel with innovation centers in Zurich, Geneva and Zug and with partners and programs across Switzerland. If you are a public or private school looking for a STEAM/MINT program for your school, a teacher looking to learn, a parent seeking programs for your child, or a corporation seeking a team building or corporate event partner, then TechLabs could be exactly what you are looking for.

Please consider donating to the TechLabs Giving foundation, which provides financial support to families in order to provide transformative educational experiences for all. 

📌 Highlights from Joel Radvanyi

• Why resilience is the hidden superpower in tech learning and life.
• How “failing forward” builds grit and problem-solving skills.
• The creative side of technology—and why it’s not just for “techy” kids.
• How TechLabs builds community and fosters collaboration.
• How corporate partners are essential to making tech education accessible.
• How TechLabs can also be a learning hub for teachers.

🎧 Subscribe now and join us on this journey.

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Transcript

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TECHLABS WITH JOEL RADVANYI

[00:00:00] 

Sandra: Hi, I'm Sandra Hueskes, the co-founder of Find My Swiss School, and welcome to Find My Swiss School Plus+.

Sandra: Today I'm here with Joel Radvanyi who is the Founder and CEO of Tech Labs.

Joel: Hi Sandra.

Sandra: Joel, I'm really excited to speak to you. We've met a couple years ago now, in Basel. My son has been coming to Tech Labs for several years. I'm a huge fan of what you do and I'm thrilled to talk, about Tech Labs, your origin story.

Joel: Yeah.

Sandra: Your big dream.

Joel: Yeah.

Sandra: I actually have to just comment. You're wearing a t-shirt of the Commodore 64 computer on it, which actually I had as a kid.

Joel: Oh, did you?

Sandra: Yes.

Joel: I wore this for the occasion.

Sandra: Tell us a little bit about why you founded Tech Labs.

Joel: Okay. The biggest inspiration for it had to do with the fact that at a very young age, I was lucky enough to [00:01:00] be at a public school in the US that had the foresight to have an Apple computer.

I was in this classroom that was ostensibly a math classroom, but the teacher, demonstrated an Apple two computer for us, and for me it was the kind of experience where you get chills running up your arm and you're like, wow, this is like the most amazing thing.

I became so obsessed with it that it was very much to the exclusion of other topics like English history and i was hooked, on the idea of playing with computers and having exposure to computers for the rest of my primary and secondary education.

Sandra: Mm-hmm. 

Joel: I went to college thinking I was going to be a computer science major. But I ended up focusing on something else.

I ended up also with a master's degree in Statistics and Finance and had a career that spanned working as a coder in a back office of a financial services firm, all the way through working in the front office of a investment bank as a trader, and also being a founder of [00:02:00] several asset management firms in New York.

Joel: Ultimately I ended up here in Basel as a trailing spouse after working for 19 years in finance. And it was enough.

Sandra: Mm-hmm.

Joel: I'm sure people have seen the movies about what Wall Street is like. I experienced all of that and had enough. I had a two year amazing experience being a stay at home dad.

Sandra: Yeah.

Joel: When one day my kids came to me and said , upon hearing that we were going to be visiting the states, we want to go to Minecraft camp. And I said, what's that? And so they shared the link to the website of a company that has been operating summer holiday camps for probably about 20 plus years now.

So we took the kids there and I was blown away by the level of interest in going to these camps. They had classrooms filled with 20 kids that took up an entire floor of a university.

And I said, wow, there's that amount of interest in that.

Sandra: Yeah.

Joel: I really like Minecraft. I like coding. I like kids. We could do this. So, I [00:03:00] called the company and that's How We started Tech Labs.

Joel: I licensed content from the company, went around to a few private schools here in the Basel area and said, Hey, why don't we try an afterschool program, where we'll focus just on coding, and then for the next, few years, my bedroom was filled with PCs charging overnight, me running around using little granny carts, filled with computers to anywhere where they would have me... and we've grown ever since.

Sandra: Boy, have you ever, so where are you now? You have operations all over?

Joel: Yeah. So, we've focused on having two kinds of engagement.

One is to be able to host at what we call innovation centers. This creates a point of access for schools who want to do workshops, they can come here and they can experience all of the content and all of the equipment that we've accumulated over the last 11 years.

The other area of focus for us is to provide more bespoke activities where we are partnered with, private schools, also with, [00:04:00] public schools.

And they will host our workshops either in a recurring after school or in a camp format, or sometimes in a one-off workshop type experience.

Sandra: And I've also seen you partner with different companies as well.

Joel: What we do, is suitable for special events. One of the nice things about Switzerland is there's definitely a lot of resources and commitment by not-for-profits in the form of museums, as well as corporations who have internal foundations to sponsor educational opportunities for, their communities.

Joel: But we've also been like a delivery partner for activities. For example, museum Tingly when they were celebrating their 25th anniversary.

Sandra: Yeah.

Joel: We did a big robotics event for them. And Novartis is a big partner for us in that annually we are involved with them at a minimum with their national Future Day program, which is part of a more general regional movement of companies.

Joel: Where we might be, using virtual [00:05:00] reality interactions to, in the case of a life sciences company, simulate the production of medicines or simulate the pharmaceutical development process. Those are the kinds of interactions that we do for corporations.

Sandra: It's amazing. I'm always impressed at the range of what you do. I've also seen your robotics competition?

Joel: Right. So, early on, it occurred to us, when we started to really work with robots that there's no shortage of great robotic tools in the ed tech space, right? Ed tech being, the kinds of physical kit that one uses in the classroom to teach digital skills.

Joel: So that can be a computer, it can be a tablet, it can also be a robot. But, to bring meaning to it, right? Where both kids and families can see a larger purpose to learning.

Joel: You can come to us, learn how to build a robot, learn how to code a robot, and then compete both within our organizations community as well as a regional community. And now we're, engaged [00:06:00] with organizations that also promote global competitions.

Joel: I recently came back from Dallas, where one of our, partners Vex. Which is massive. They have it certified from the Guinness Book of World Records as the largest global robotics competition. I was there for 10 days and there had to been probably 20,000 visitors.

Joel: They split them up into, different age groups, and they compete within certain age groups and with two different types of robotic equipment, age appropriate. And you come away with this sense of there's something really big going on.

Joel: For the kids, you could see it on their faces and in their level of enthusiasm. It's just incredible. So events are top of mind for us.

Sandra: It would be interesting to hear your perspective about technology and safety.

Joel: The unspoken rule that we try to have within our programs kids do not have their own devices in the rooms where we interact with them. So it's generally easier to keep them away from the kinds of [00:07:00] digital interactions that parents are generally concerned about.

Joel: We support so many different kinds of digital interactions and have so many different groups that we need, for example, to keep our internet open. So we don't try to shut down or start whitelisting websites.

Joel: It would be a fool's errand. What we try to do instead is to focus the kids on positive interactions that their parents feel is the value of sending them to tech labs for, right?

Joel: And so we have an unspoken rule here we want our kids to go home being able to explain one new thing that they learned here. They should be able to explain it in a way that a child, but especially their mom, can understand.

Sandra: They're much more digital natives than many of their parents. I think that's changing a lot, but I've been to a couple different groups around digital safety, different discussions and I'm always amazed at the range of parental comfort or experience with technology.

Joel: Gaming in particular is fraught. It can go very quickly into a dark place. And, definitely kids, let's say in the sweet spot of our, audiences age [00:08:00] group are generally quite competitive in a social setting with or without electronic or digital gaming.

Joel: So when you give them the opportunity to interact with something like Roblox, which we do 'cause Roblox has a really great educational add-on tool called Roblox Studio. And we use it for classes and camps where kids can code.

Joel: But that's actually a really great example because about three, four years ago, Roblox was kind of on the s list for parents because, there is a very easily accessible social media platform integrated into the Roblox gaming system. And so what that means is kids with their virtual selves are playing in this world with their other friends, could suddenly find themselves in a room with a predator, right?

Sandra: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Joel: So that definitely falls on us to maintain a safe environment for the kids. The other stick that we use is don't do anything in our classroom where if your mom was standing behind you, she'd be upset with you. And again it happens sometimes, right? I'll look [00:09:00] over a kid's shoulder and have to say would mom be okay with this? And generally kids are really responsive to that. I've not had to escalate beyond that to get them to focus.

Sandra: I would also like to commend you guys because when my son, who's eight, was in one of your coding programs, he came home and showed me his certificate, which was this, digital safety training module. And I was so impressed by that.

Joel: And to that point I will say that in the 10 plus years that we've been doing these interactions, the tools have become much, much better.

Joel: So I would say for any parent, anywhere where they may be listening to this podcast, your trusted partner should be able to easily, and credibly, show you what it is that the kids are doing that protect them, vis-a-vis their digital exposure at their organization.

Joel: You brought up a really good example there with the digital safety thing. So that was, through the Minecraft. Minecraft, EDU.

Joel: Minecraft these days is owned by Microsoft. It's operated [00:10:00] by their foundation, so there's a lot that we can reassure parents with in terms of tools and resources. These things did not exist 10 years ago.

Joel: We're all busy parents, right?

Sandra: Mm-hmm.

Joel: And we can't be looking over our child's shoulder to see what they're engaging with on the internet. But it gets a little bit easier in terms of picking the right tools, and fortunately, there's a lot of good in the world right now with examples like Minecraft, EDU, and I would say roblox, it's helpful to be in a supervised environment, like what we offer.

Sandra: There are also a lot of backend safety mechanisms you can put in.

Sandra: So what I appreciate about what you guys do is you're teaching them values.

Joel: Yeah.

Sandra: And hopefully some kind of critical thinking to take forward for themselves .

Joel: And we'll touch on a very important concept you brought up there, which is values. That's an important element of how we run things here.

Joel: When we start every camp or class during our first session, after we tell the kids where to find the bathroom. Is we talk to them about being respectful of the other kids in the space, being [00:11:00] respectful of their work.

Joel: Not reaching over and putting their hands on another keyboard, unless they've been asked to, but also have a values based, approach. Right? We're not just here to play games. We play a lot of games, but we try to learn, and we try to make them fun interactions for learning purposes.

Sandra: What about classes for older students?

Joel: One of our challenges here in Switzerland is that once kids hit Matura age, they are quite busy. We have a program for, 13 and over kids that's structured more like a seminar format. We have a flexible approach with that class. The kids can come either Tuesday or Thursday. It's structured in a way where we come in at the start of a semester with a theme of what we'd like the kids to focus on, it's also an opportunity to work with one of our instructors as a mentor if they have a school assignment or school-based project.

Joel: Where they can use our resources to develop the concept. And all of the kids in that program, [00:12:00] are in the Swiss public school system. And they've been with us quite regularly for two years.

Joel: Anyone can join. We support English, German, and French in that class.

Sandra: Well actually you do in all your camps, don't you?

Joel: We try, yeah. We succeed, but there's a lot of magic happening behind the scenes as far as scheduling to make sure that the right language support is in the right classes.

Joel: I would say the thing that, is hard to appreciate. Just how much resources we put into ensuring that there is language support. 'cause we want kids to feel, comfortable enough that they'll take a bit of a leap and be confident and ask questions, try things, put their hands on things that they see around here.

Joel: We want them to be comfortable with that. And a big part of that is that they feel that they'll be understood if they ask a question. This kind of points that the whole cultural idea as well. We need to be quite sensitive to that also.

Sandra: There is an element of creativity with technology learning. And I think sometimes parents underestimate [00:13:00] that too.

Joel: I can definitely speak for a lot of boys but I was always drawing blueprints while doodling and not paying attention in English class, for example. And I wanted to actually build those things.

Joel: Had I had the resources that I've put together in my various innovation centers, I probably would have. Earlier I alluded to our seminar program. I see a lot of those kids are doing just that. They completed the theme for the year a few weeks ago for this semester, and now they're more or less creatively building drones from scratch, programmable drones with FPV, that's a first person view cameras on 'em.

Joel: I would've loved to have been able to build those things. So one of our driving motivations is to create a space where kids can be very creative.

Joel: And it's one of the challenges of creating great camps and classes. The ones that the kids give us the best feedback on are the ones where the goal is more of a general outcome. But the kids can [00:14:00] realize it in their own specific interaction.

Joel: So what do I mean by that? Okay. Take something as simple as during our Harry Potter, unrelated to the franchise camps where kids make wands.

Joel: They fabricate these things from scratch and they learn something about circuits so that the tip of the wand can light up.

Joel: But there's quite a bit of crafting that goes into it and 3D printing in terms of printing the components that hold the wand together. But in a class of 10 kids, every wand will be completely different.

Joel: We have them hold onto that because later in the program we'll have them make their own magic videos in front of a green screen where they can make themselves disappear.

Joel: And then you'll see the wand waving around and suddenly they'll reappear. Through all of those steps, they learn about the apps, they learn about what a green screen is, how does it work, right? Like they learn some basic media skills, but each kid's one will be quite different to the next.

Joel: Creativity is very much encouraged, but at the same time, there is a core of [00:15:00] structure around what the things are that we want them to be able to go home and explain to you at night.

Sandra: Yeah.

Sandra: But I would love to hear your, what's your big vision? What is your mission with Tech Labs? I think what you do is incredible, and it'd be great to hear what your big goal is.

Joel: Yeah. We have a big goal in terms of our organizational goal. The organizational goal would be that our innovation centers would be recognized as a place where we could train teachers to come and globally learn from us being like a central library repository of content and equipment.

Joel: One of the reasons why we're called Tech Labs is because we try lots of different things. We have the opportunity because of the way our organization has grown and the following that it has developed to try new content with kids and figure out which things work and which things don't. There's an awful lot of ed tech equipment out there, and we have opinions about which ones are great, which ones are not, and if you want to see or you want to know, then you just need to visit with us at one of our innovation centers.

Joel: But there, there [00:16:00] is a bigger global mission here, especially partnered with our not-for-profit, where we'd like to create opportunities for teachers to come and experience that and have, the opportunity to have meaningful hands-on pedagogical training experiences, maybe in the company or in collaboration with children or other teachers.

Joel: If I had to give it in a 30 second elevator pitch I would say I want to create the World Economic Forum of Education Technology. We'd like to host expos and events and research retreats things like that. That's the corporate vision.

Joel: We do a lot of work in terms of documenting our experiences, and formatting it into presentations, handouts, turning them into workshops of every different stripe and size from one hour to one week experiences. We see a real opportunity to be able, especially in Switzerland, centralize these kinds of interactions.

Sandra: Yeah.

Joel: There's a whole other element to this, which [00:17:00] I think is actually what has been the source of our success, is that all of the people that we work with here, can demonstrate both in a class as well as their personal professional journeys, a tremendous amount of resilience.

Joel: Personally I have lived in many different countries, have had to start over many different times, both as a child, as a young adult and, as an older adult. Also professionally i've had to start over many times. And I can tell you that Tech Labs, if you ask, my close colleagues, they would tell you that we reinvent every 12 months.

Joel: The core of that, the thing that I think kids can really vibe to when they come here they're not exactly sure how it's going to turn out, but they know it's going to be fun and engaging.

Sandra: Mm-hmm.

Joel: And I'm very much about promoting that. I'll pat myself on the back and call it, success has been actually quite a bit of failure too. In having tried things that just don't pan out and, in baseball parlance, right? You only have to bat 300 to be a superstar.

Joel: That means seven times out of 10 you're going to strike out and not even make it on [00:18:00] base. Right?

Sandra: Yeah.

Joel: Teaching that to kids is super important. And I would say that one of the great things about digital interactions is that there's a tremendous amount of iterativeness inherently embedded into valuable interactions anyway.

Joel: Kids try things, doesn't work. Try again, doesn't work. It really doesn't cost you very much to try something else. So it's a great context in which to teach kids, it's okay to fail, and I don't at all mean to suggest that kids should be trying to fail.

Joel: But I do want to create an environment in which people are risk takers and feel comfortable with that. And don't necessarily stop trying because they run into some type of adversity.

Joel: The longer I keep doing this, I would say that the most important aspect of learning, it's that you emotionally are comfortable with not necessarily knowing the outcomes of things.

Sandra: Mm-hmm.

Joel: And that the surprises that you might experience might be a lot more interesting than what you had set out to do in the first place.

Sandra: Mm-hmm.

Sandra: Do you have any big [00:19:00] takeaways you would like to share?

Joel: Yeah, I think, and this isn't specific to, hey, send your kids to try Tech Labs.

Joel: Yeah.

Sandra: Although you should.

Joel: It again, it goes back to this point of resilience, right?

Joel: Send your kid to the store and even if they're German is just emerging, have them try buying, a pint of milk just so they have that experience.

Joel: Saying that I realize that comes off like, oh, wow, he must be so confident with his German. I wanna reassure everyone listening that anytime I'm approached by someone that leads with German, I start sweating.

Joel: Being an expat is one of the greatest experiences that, they can have as a family, but certainly for their kids as a formative experience. But really the thing that is most valuable is this emotional resilience to be familiar with a positive outcome when challenged whether it's personal, professional life or in terms of in the context of digital exploration.

Sandra: I keep hearing child psychologists use the word grit. And what You're describing as learning through technology, being an [00:20:00] expat, all of these things really develop grit. It's this resilience and not giving up.

Joel: And that's one of the reasons why we support these innovation centers rather than just working directly with schools. There are plenty of other vendors that more or less have a warehouse and they carry everything around in the back of a truck and then book workshops through a web portal.

Joel: I wasn't entirely convinced when we took out these innovation centers to rent them, that it was going to be successful. But one of the great outcomes of it is they've become a place where people from different cultures get to interact with one another.

Sandra: I can vouch for that. Yeah. That's been my experience completely.

Joel: I'm glad to hear you say that. Yeah. 'cause I see it all.

Joel: We do have a great place where there are a lot of kids from different backgrounds interacting with one another. It's really nice to see them interacting, being exposed to English, being exposed to German, being exposed to French.

Sandra: Can people buy some of your favorite kits through you?

Joel: Definitely. So we Do stock small verticals of inventory that are [00:21:00] appropriate for a family to take home. Right. Makes a great Christmas gift. Or items like that, that are appropriate for a family to buy. We're not like Toys R Us.

Joel: But when we think that we have something that's really awesome that families might be interested in, then usually we'll keep 15 to 20 additional units. Then families can buy them. They're always welcome to ask us about the products that we stock or our opinion on certain products. And we definitely have opinions.

Sandra: I've personally bought quite a few of your 3D printed experiments, doesn't that fund your intern program or something?

Joel: Yeah, exactly. Exactly.

Joel: I should say something about that. We've had a lot of success with having kids who are with us for 5, 7, 10 years now.

Joel: But what we do is when they get to about. 13, 14 is we give them opportunities to be interns for us, which is great, by the way. It's great for us. It's great for them.

Sandra: Well, your son is interning with you, right?

Joel: Yeah, he is. He's just finishing a gap year after having gone to an international school here in Basel. He's the [00:22:00] Inspiration for a few of our programs like the model airplane camp that we have.

Joel: he was the one that pointed out to me that there's a vendor out there that provides STEM tools for model airplanes. And I had no idea what he was talking about. And he showed me the website. He's a great resource to have around because he's quite interested in these things.

Sandra: He's great with the kids too.

Joel: Yeah.

Sandra: And they think he's so cool.

Joel: There's a strong family element to this operation, but unfortunately he's leaving us to go to college. But we really need a lot of heavy lifting that's very appropriate to interns, like sorting robot parts.

Sandra: What about Support For families that can't afford classes. 

Joel: Yeah. We started as a for-profit company and we still operate primarily as a for-profit company. We do large scale events, but when we're asked, for example, to work with Basel, last year we had something like 14,000 visits over seven days from children.

Joel: There is no direct financial support for that . To pay for being there. We more or less take that out of our marketing budget. But behind the scenes all of [00:23:00] these other vendors who are there, are sponsored, right? They have either community or foundation based support for their being able to create and man these presentations and these interactions for kids. 

Joel: In January of 2024, what became obvious was that as part of community outreach we realized we're gonna need to have a not-for-profit arm to essentially raise funds to be able to support those kinds of interactions.

Joel: In addition, we have identified certain projects that we, deliver operated by the for-profit side of our company, but we can do fundraising, for example, in the case of our flight camp to sponsor a specific child or a number of children or group of children to be able to attend the program.

Joel: It's definitely Been a challenge let's just say that we're about 18 months into that experience. And having to relearn how to get financial resources for something you want to do is, let's just say I underestimated the challenge.

Sandra: It's, it is a challenge, but once you build the foundation, it will come. Right?

Joel: Yeah. [00:24:00] We're very much actively fundraising for a number of projects. We have an active program, which you can find, on our social media channels trying to raise 5,000 francs, of which we've raised 1000.

Joel: I have a very touching story about that. We had an application from a family of a child that had paid the full price to come to this program. They live in a smaller Swiss community and the community is hosting a refugee family that had made a massive effort to integrate. This family said our kids have become friends. We'd like to help this other family to be able to send their kid, but we don't really have the money for it. So I was very touched by the fact that they were essentially nominating someone else.

Joel: I was actually a refugee early in my earliest expat experience. Escaping from Hungary into, Western Europe. So that was our first sponsoring for this program.

Joel: You can visit our main website, which is techlabs.ch.

Joel: Our social channels can be found on Facebook, Instagram, LinkedIn, and we [00:25:00] have a separate website for our not-for-profit called TechLabsGiving.ch.

Sandra: We'll post all of these as well.

Joel: For some of our special programs, for example, for our flight camp, there's a separate website, but all of these things are linked together. They're easy to find. We're certainly always open to hearing ideas were a community may be interested in hosting us to support some kind of interaction or workshop. I would also encourage families to visit with us at one of our innovation centers.

Sandra: And if schools are looking for programs as well, you might be a great resource actually.

Joel: Yeah.

Joel: We've done pretty well with outreach on that topic. A lot of that has been driven by what we talked about earlier with the, with these global event opportunities.

Joel: I would say if you're an international school right now in Switzerland there's opportunities to get involved. Pay us a visit or we'll pay you a visit. And you'll figure out how we might fit or how these events might fit into the curriculums.

Sandra: And also with public schools too. No? 

Joel: So we would love to, I mean, I would guess, private school population in Switzerland is what? 5%?

Sandra: 5%.

Joel: Okay. So that means there's [00:26:00] 95% of kids are not involved with this. Of course there is a lot of digital intervention opportunities that kids can get pulled out into, but they tend to be because it's Switzerland, quite, dispersed.

At a certain point they want kids to immerse into workshops in whatever language they've chosen to focus on in their topic. And it turns out that robots are a really great medium with which to teach in English.

Kids love coming here. Once teachers figure out what we're doing, you can see the light bulb go on. And of course, it's paid for by the Canton. So there's no way you can lose by, if you're in Basel Stadt bringing a class here.

It is good to know if you happen to be a teacher, and we're doing a lot in terms of outreach to raise awareness . We'd like to have our 13 and 14 year olds involved with global opportunities to compete in events.

It gets a little bit more complicated, right? Because the school teachers are already busy. So who's gonna do it? And who's gonna pay for it? And I can tell you, 'cause we definitely knocked on all the doors, there's not a lot of budget for that.

Ultimately it does come down to that. So parents are not [00:27:00] terribly happy about the fact that they have to pay our fees in this particular context where everything else is free when it comes to education, right?

But there's not an easy answer to that. And we've been trying for 10 years to figure that out. We're doing the best that we can in terms of the kind of sponsoring.

Sandra: And maybe this is an idea for another corporate sponsor to come on in.

Joel: We see that happening. For example, in Schaffhausen, there's a company Go Tech, and that's supported by a group of 20 to 30 companies, corporate sponsors that provide some portion of the budget and the Gemeinde provides the rest. And they basically provide more or less free programs and they're full.

We would love to have that kind of support. That's something that we're working on, to get the companies together on that. And by the way, Basel Stadt has no shortage of companies interested in sponsoring these things. There hasn't been as big of an organized effort around this from a corporate citizenship perspective, as there have been in some other cantons.

Sandra: Hmm. Interesting.

Well, listen, Joel, I would like to thank you for your time today.

Joel: Thank you.

Sandra: It's always a pleasure chatting with you and I can vouch for how much my son loves to come here.

Joel: Thank [00:28:00] you.

Sandra: I'm sure we'll be here for years to come and I'm a huge supporter of what you do, so happy to spread the word about Tech Labs. Please check out the website.

Joel: Yeah.

Sandra: TechLabs. Ch and of course we're gonna post some resources for people as well.

Joel: Yeah.

Sandra: Are there any last thoughts you would like to share with us?

Joel: Well, I'd like to thank you and FIND MY SWISS SCHOOL. I think you guys are doing some great things as well. No matter how confident you are or resilient you may be, it's always a disorienting experience. And adding more resources for families to be able to make important decisions around the kinds of educational experiences for their kids is very worthwhile.

I think you guys are bringing a lot of value and a lot of information to light that was certainly not available when we started on our journey here. So congrats.

Sandra: Well, thank you. Thank you for that thought that we appreciate that a lot.

Thank you to our listeners, and please check out the resource page and the links.

If you have any questions, you can always drop us a line.

Thank you.

Joel: Thank you.